Depends on the role and the schedule of the rest of the team. It's absolutely reasonable to expect someone in the office by 9am, in the same way that it's absolutely reasonable to work out an "alternate work schedule". And if you're the kind of person with a "non-traditional" sleep schedule, the onus is on you to ensure the environment you're joining will support that.
The "I'll show up when I want" reeks of entitlement.
"I'll show up when I want" is totally reasonable so long as that's what the employer and employee agreed upon (eg, flex hours).
As a person with a "non-traditional sleep schedule", and an employment agreement that allows me to work when I want, I do not apologize or even remotely feel bad for coming in after 9am, just as I don't look down on anyone that leaves at or before 5pm.
I completely agree that this is an agreement between employee and employer. If the employer wants to pay more for the privilege on or or lose out on good employees for pure office working thats up to them.
However the converse of "I'll show up when I want", in this case "I expect you turn up exactly when i say", is entitlement from the employer. It's just an established one.
I'd say that this is more important than your comment suggests.
Across society at large, it's generally incredibly valuable that workers tend to work at the same time and be available to work together at the same time. This not only enhances productivity at work, but also enhances social lives since as a corollary it means that many workers tend to be off work at the same time too.
If anybody you work with directly needs to work during the day, then in most cases you will need to work during the day as well -- otherwise you'd be hindering the ability of that person to communicate with you when they need to. For instance, maybe your boss has to work during normal business hours because he/she is in frequent communication with other business contacts. But your boss also needs to be able to get into contact with you on the spot, often to facilitate said communication with other contacts. So you pretty much need to work during normal hours now too.
It's easy to see how the network effect of this can be very powerful, and I think this explains why there's an established asymmetry here between employer and employee.
It certainly is entitlement if the grandparent thinks it's righteous to lose all sympathy only because they are not willing to trade control over the sleep cycle for money. Don't assume everbody has yours, and don't judge them if they don't.
If I'm paying you, there's probably a lot of things I would like to decide.
This isn't an argument against remote work, but I've had all sorts of sleep patterns during different jobs. I just go to bed at a time when I can get an appropriate enough amount of sleep before I show up for work.
There are very few jobs on the planet--including many where you own your own business--that do not involve some degree of being in some place or doing some task at particular times. Some are indeed more flexible than others, including remote programming with minimal team or client interaction.
So, yeah, I like others am pretty non-sympathetic to anyone who expects to be paid money for 100% schedule flexibility.
Well I'm not an employer, but I would probably hire the person that can fit to the schedule that I prefer. Different companies have different needs - some prefer a team that spans an entire day, some prefer everyone to be online at the same time. That really is up to the employer.
My argument was totally not against remote work, and I agree with all the points against open-plan offices. However, changing the time you go to bed and wake up is so trivially simple that it just made the author seem obstructive.
For me the context is important here : we're talking about "people who can competently cut code". These people are so rare within the general population that I'm willing to accept all sorts of hygiene factors such as working strange hours, having poor communication skills, being obsessed with specific programming languages or operating systems, and on and on.
If I had 10 solid candidates show up for every job opening, I'd probably pick one that was willing to keep regular office hours. But that's not the situation, typically. Ability to write decent code trumps the other factors.
> Between 10% and 30% of adults have insomnia at any given point in time and up to half of people have insomnia in a given year.[3][5][11] About 6% of people have insomnia that is not due to another problem and lasts for more than a month.[3] People over the age of 65 are affected more often than younger people.[7] Females are more often affected than males.[5] Descriptions of insomnia occur at least as far back as ancient Greece.[12]
Just medicate the problem, right?
> While sleeping pills may help, they are associated with injuries, dementia, and addiction.[8][9] Medications are not recommended for more than four or five weeks.[9] The effectiveness and safety of alternative medicine is unclear.[8][9]
Well I'm glad that I'm not wrong "in general" then.
I would never dispute that insomnia is a real problem for people. But "I simply can't come in at 9am, I'm a night owl!" is the attitude I took exception to.
I'm resisting the urge to put all the disagreement with my point down to crabbiness from lack of sleep.
>>"I simply can't come in at 9am, I'm a night owl!"
Do you take exception to that statement if it came from someone with Delayed sleep phase disorder? [1]
" According Cary Cooper, a psychologist and professor at Lancaster University Management School, when people who have DSPS wake up early for work, they become sleep deprived which causes them to be less efficient, innovative, and creative at the office. People with DSPS have trouble finding positions that allow them to work hours that let them get enough sleep. This also results in more stress, and can cause workplace accidents. " [2]
> changing the time you go to bed and wake up is so trivially simple
Jesus, man, how many times will people have to explain to you that in many cases it does not work like that before you understand or at least acknowledge it?
