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> I also think that it is a lesson to us all that someone doesn't have to be formally trained in a field to make major contributions to it.

I don't think it serves that lesson at all but rather an extraordinary minority of very talented indidvuals can bypass such training/education in extremely rare circumstances. He's a Mozart and education and training is still necessary for the vast majority of people.



Mozart had extensive education and training????


Nope -- he was a prodigy from the earliest age. He was composing music at the age of 5.

Thats kindergarten. You might be thinking of other composers who are regarded as his equals -- Mozarts brain was just tuned for music in a way ours are not.


He was composing music at the age of 5.

I would have been composing at 5 had my father been a musician/composer/teacher! (I did start piano at 4, in a not-particularly-musical household) As it was, I remember hearing that when I was about 9, and thought "Oh well, it's too late for me" - which is a shame! But his first compositions weren't great. You write that like it's some super-human feat or something.

"he was a prodigy from the earliest age. ... Mozarts brain was just tuned for music in a way ours are not." I don't know why people talk like that. Maybe as an excuse for not achieving great things themselves, or even having to try.

There was a Hungarian guy who decided to train his 3 daughters to be chess players, to see just how good they could be given a proper training. The 2nd strongest sister became world champion. The strongest one never played in women-only events, she was too strong, and turned out to be the strongest woman chess player of all time, by a long way. (i.e. Susan and Judit Polgar) I don't think it was because their brains were 'tuned for it'. They just had the perfect environment.


Another example, this[1] music producer's kid developed perfect pitch despite the lack of any training. He was exposed to a rich variety of complex music right from the start. When the dad discovered his son's ability, he found out that the kid had his own names for the notes. IIRC, based on which song begins with that note. I think it's quite likely that if the dad had spent all his days composing music, the son would have been doing that from an early age as well.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Cb1qwCUvI


Heres another way to test your hypothesis that Mozarts genius can be credited to his training and advantage of a musically literate family.

If we applied the same training and familial advantage to many kids would any of them turn out like Mozart?

I'd argue they probably wouldn't because his brain was fundamentally different and that made the difference.

If he didn't have those advantages would he have been discovered as a prodigy as quickly and as early? Maybe not.


Your proposal can't actually test the hypothesis because it can't (reasonably) be done. We don't know how many children were similarly situated and did not turn out like Mozart.

It could be that many musicians with a similar background were/are similarly as good as Mozart, and Mozart's music is especially famous for its cultural appeal and his father's aggressive "marketing" to royalty. There are many reasons one particular musician's musicical legacy can succeed aside from raw skill and creativity, much like the success of a company has a nontrivial luck component.

It could also be that he really was extraordinary above and beyond his family's musical background. Like most discussions about the nature versus nurture of genius, we can't really assert one thing or another.


But again, many people have ideal environments and don't make it; others have environments far from ideal and do.


Is music composition difficult? Are most five-year-olds asked or encouraged to write music? Is this something that most adults have attempted and failed to do? Do you think that you could write a piece of music if you had time and inclination?

I'm asking honestly, because I'm pretty sure that I'm not having a typical life experience. Personally, I don't really bother to listen to music, because music is never further away than wanting to hear a melody. It's something to do on the bus, or when my mind is otherwise unoccupied. One starts with a note or a scale, finds a 'lick' in it, develops it into a theme or refrain, introduces a counterpoint or noodles around through the keys a bit, and eventually we work around to a restatement or finale (or get bored or forgetful in the middle). I suspect that this is easier for me than others, but I don't think that I'm any kind of musical genius. I'm at least hoping that creating music is more of a normal part of the human condition than not, at any rate.


Tbf, his compositions at 5 were and still are dreadful.


I agree that education/training is required for most everyone. But there are times that these minorities could contribute a lot but how certain industries/fields are structured they are shut out.


What strange ideas people have about Mozart and genius. Everyone is bad when they start doing anything. They gradually get better by putting in countless hours. I'm not a Mozart expert, but I know his father and sister were musicians, so his education and training would have started extremely young. You'll find a similar thing with most prodigies.

Reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan , it sounds like he was obsessed with maths from the age of 10 or so. He learned from books. Sounds like by the time he got to college, what he was interested in wasn't taught there anyway; he was already too advanced/specialized.

His story seems to me a sad one, so often sick, dying only 6 years after arriving in England, at 32, etc.




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