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But you can’t force others to provide you more meat free options. You also can’t force societies values to change around you. I think the parent comment is more talking about accomodating the world around rather than expecting it to accomodate you.


> But you can’t force others to provide you more meat free options.

Forcing is a strong word, but if businesses and friends are more aware there's a demand for meat free alternatives, more options slowly become available until a tipping point is reached. There was a recent study that was saying beef consumption has to reduce by 90% to help avoid dangerous climate change (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/10/huge-red...) so I think we're well beyond the point where people that want to eat less meat should feel they're the ones causing a problem by voicing their preference.


Thing is, there is no healthy and easy alternative for meat.


There very much is a healthier alternative to meat - less meat. Americans are eating way too many calories and too much saturated fat. They're eating more than enough protein, iron, and b-vitamins. For the overwhelming majority of American consumers, simply deleting the meat from most of their meals would significantly improve their diet.


Less meat is still meat. Never said it wasn't necessary.


Check out the number of top athletes who are vegetarian or vegan. Go to a typical Spartan race in your state and you'll find a ton of top performers who don't eat meat. If you are in the US, there are enough healthy alternatives even outside the two coasts.

Also, this choice doesn't have to be binary. One could eat less meat - either smaller quantities or fewer meals with meat each week. The end goal is simple - reduce the number of animals who have to be raised and killed for meat each year. If one agrees on that (and one might not), then even reducing your intake by 10% helps a lot.


I don't see how that's true. How do you think healthy vegetarians manage to get by then? If there were more vegetarians, it would be even easier as well as there would be more fast food options.


While I agree, the best way to effect change for whatever values you think are good, is to lead by example, and to apply some pressure to the society around you. None of those imply force, as force has the potential to do more damage than good.


A good friend, however, would be open to choosing a restaurant that you know has decent vegetarian options.


>> You also can’t force societies values to change around you

I see your point but would you advocate the same stance for other ethical issues - refusal of restaurants to serve African Americans before the civil rights movement?

Having said that, I agree that I don't like the sense of entitlement many people have in restaurants where they demand to be served something the restaurant clearly doesn't usually provide. But I do hope these "abstraction layers" of animal raising, slaughter, meat cleaning and packing and then buying a clean, small pack from a local store get "leaky". People need to see what other species go through for that meal on our tables.




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