I buried a wooden ship in the sand at the beach when my little boy was 5 years old.
We were digging sand castles when "he found it".
Back at the house when his grandfather was having a closer look at the ship, grandad "discovered" an old map and little key inside the ship - strange we hadn't noticed it earlier.
The map had a big X marked on it - also down at the beach near a big cave. I happened to know just that area....
So we went down there and dug in the sand and found a wooden treasure box wrapped in a metal chain and padlocked. When my little boy tried the key in the lock.... it fit!
Inside the box was overflowing with jewellery and coins and weird little trinkets. He had discovered buried treasure!
In fact I had bought the wooden ship, and the wooden jewellery box from the local opportunity shop and also bought $5 worth of shiny junk jewellery and old overseas coins and trinkets and filled it up. I then bought a chain and padlock and wrapped it up and buried it.
He's 11 years old now and still doesn't know the true story. Credit is due to my friend who did this first - he buried a pouch in the sand for his kids to find - I just expanded on the idea with the ship and the map and the treasure box, chains and padlock etc.
This sort of thing seems also useful to teach to the youngster, upon the time he understands/learns that he was tricked, that even folks may lie to him (deliberately or not).
In a society truth is less important than relationships, communication, shared "knowledge" (myths).
It may be one of the reason why the Santa Claus character (among other ones) stays "alive" in the culture.
Ps. Watching this scene feels like almost all the employee stock option situations I OH in the Bay Area. Thankfully Carta is there to show you how little you get as an employee if and only if you go public.
It’s not lying, it’s called make believe [1]. Children play this way all the time. It’s a healthy part of development. Adults play along with Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy. When kids get older and figure it out, they generally have fond memories of it. The only cases I’ve heard of where it was upsetting was when somebody else spoiled it for them, just like how people spoiled the end of the 6th Harry Potter book.
Adults do it all the time as well, when we consume fiction. It feels good to escape our current reality and inhabit another, magical reality, if only for a while. It’s a healthy thing to do as long as it doesn’t lead to a breakdown in our relationships and other aspects of our lives.
I'm really more and more convinced that each and every human group has such foundations ("myths"), and that the larger the group, the larger the distortion between the myth and reality.
There is an hypothesis about the origin of the "hacker" state of mind (as a strong urge to understand how things work) stating that many of them think/thought that, as youngsters, they were lied to (cannot find the reference, though).
Available informative resources played a huge part in mine. (One of the reasons I despair about the modern internet filling kids' time with cotton candy trivia)
With a pathologist father, 3rd grade biology questions digressed into two hour linked list lectures on biochemistry.
I distinctly remember the joy inspired by finding out about the-thing-behind-the-thing though!
When I was a kid we went hiking in the mountains with my dad and my uncle every fall catching small trouts (50-150g I guess) in the creeks using wooden poles and worms on hooks.
I was a grown up before it dawned to me that if it wasn't for us they could have gone somewhere else and caught real fish.
They never said anything but today I do the same: sometimes we go hiking on Sundays before or after church, "expeditions into the wilderness", tenting in the garden.
A little, yeah. I wrestled with this as a parent as my kids got older and older. At some point my seven year old asked me is Santa was real and why we would tell her he’s real. Explained the fun and magic of Christmas, etc and I don’t think it was traumatic or anything, but definitely made me feel a little down.
Parents "lie" to their kids about things like Santa because they remember the magical world that was created for them from their own childhoods, before the reality of a world with no Santa, murder, disease, death etc intruded on their reality.
Which is better, telling your child:
"yeah you will lose all your baby teeth and each one will hurt and bleed and make you look silly with big gaps in your mouth"
or
"oooh you lost a tooth, now let's put it under your pillow and the tooth fairy will exchange it for a little gift while you sleep"
I don't understand why you put "lie" in quotes. Even if you believe it is done for a good reason, it is most certainly lieing.
You have a wide variety of choices as to what to tell your child that doesn't include lieing. You can celebrate the loss of a tooth as a positive step of growing up without telling a lie about a creepy fairy that sneeks into houses and collects teeth.
Adults may rationalize to themselves that they lie to children to protect the children, but I think it is often more motivated by the adults' desire to avoid having an uncomfortable and difficult conversation.
Memories are real, experiences are as real as one wants them to be.
We all learn critical thinking and separating fact from fiction eventually, but that doesn’t mean you can’t look back fondly on experiences you enjoyed as a kid.
Or... They could appreciate the amount of effort that their parent made into making the world magical for them, they might reflect on that when they have children and do the same, and they'll be grateful for a wonderful upbringing.
I don't think my father was capable of that level of imagination. I think he would have trouble conceiving that such obvious childish could actually enchant a child, and it would mean so much to them. You're a good father, I'm glad they exist.
When I was 4 or 5 my grandma took the leftover chicken bones from lunch and buried them in the garden. Then me and grandma went on an "archeological" dig, looking for Neanderthal bones. (for some reason as a kid I was more fascinated by prehistoric hominids than dinosaurs)
Don't know. I figure one day it will come out, no hurry to dispel the magic till then.
If you like that sort of thing:
Last year for his birthday I spent several months preparing an alien treasure hunt in the park for his birthday.
The idea was an alien spacecraft had crashed in the park and eight 10 year old boys were needed to go hunting for the clues to help the aliens get home.
As we drove down there listening to the radio I had an IOT device that transmitted its own AM radio station to the car radio with an urgent announcement about a crashed alien spacecraft nearby.
I prepared all sorts of gadgets and electronic devices - sound effects and lights - gave the kids bluetooth buttons to search for things and had little IOT devices that played sounds when the buttons came in range. I made audio mission cards which played audible missions to the kids (made from audio greeting card mechanisms). I bought tiny little glow in the dark aliens and little led lights that I scattered around the park. The kids found a nest of alien eggs that they had to eat (chocolate eggs).
The finale was they had to tie the tiny aliens to helium balloons and send them into the sky to "send them home".
I spent months writing code and preparing it all. Only about half worked on the night!!
I think I had more fun making it all than the kids did doing it.
>The finale was they had to tie the tiny aliens to helium balloons and send them into the sky to "send them home".
I'm going to be "that guy" - don't do this. What goes up must come down, so it essentially amounts to littering bits of rubber and plastic ribbon everywhere which pose a choking threat to wildlife - particularly marine wildlife, if they make it that far.
As others have pointed out, the timing of this is a bit suspicious. Another searcher was just found dead in March of this year, and Fenn was also sued in Dec 2019 (links available on the Wikipedia page).
Without proof, it's impossible to know if Fenn is just trying to call the whole thing off to avoid future troubles (and impossible to know if the treasure ever existed).
Even if he posts pictures, I'm not sure that will be adequate proof.
So what? A man says something. Then he says something else. What does it matter?
Folks chose to follow a dream. It was their legs that took them there; their imagination that motivated them. Their responsibility for their own lives.
In grown-up terms, there was no contract between the treasure-hider and the treasure-seekers.
IANAL but "18 U.S.C. 1038 - False information and hoaxes":
Whoever engages in any conduct with intent to convey false or misleading information under circumstances where such information may reasonably be believed... if death results, be fined under this title or imprisoned for any number of years up to life, or both
... may reasonably be believed and where such information indicates that an activity has taken, is taking, or will take place that would constitute a violation of chapter 2 [aircraft & motor vehicles], 10 [biological weapons], 11B [chemical weapons], 39 [explosives & other dangerous articles], 40 [importation, manufacture, distribution & storage of explosive materials], 44 [firearms], 111 [shipping], or 113B [terrorism] of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284) [sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel], or section 46502, the second sentence of section 46504, section 46505(b)(3) or (c), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved, or section 60123(b) of title 49, shall...
IANAL, but these don't seem to be the "lying about treasure" types of statutes. Unless your treasure is plutonium.
Perhaps it was deliberate misrepresentation, that isn't the point. The point is that calling people out for deliberate misrepresentation tends to lead discussions away from the constructive, informative and civil ideal that HN aspires to.
I am skeptical, but there is a (delayed) popup on his site that says we can look forward to more info and photos in the coming days. Hopefully he reveals the solution:
While I quite like the spirit of it and think people take their own risks, I don't think it's entirely obvious that it was in fact a good deed.
Consider a more overt variation: declare a prize for an open-entry no-rules fighting tournament. Nobody's been forced to participate, but encouraging people to engage in a dangerous activity is at least morally dubious to my mind.
Going out into wilderness is encouraging a dangerous behavior comparable with no-rules fighting? It ain't even remotely comparable. If hundreds of thousands will participate, somebody will get injured even if it would be about crossing the street.
The sad truth is, some folks ain't completely right in their head, become obsessive over these kind of things (and other aspects of their lives), and then eventually bad things start happening.
Life is supposed to be adventure, not a safe walk in the park, shying away from any potential danger. Clearly Fenn thinks this way, and I can't agree more.
Some hiking trails are inherently dangerous for those ill-prepared. The Grand Escalante Staircase in Utah comes to mind. There is no cell signal and water sources are scarce. Beautiful slot canyon hiking and loads of fun, but it does carry an element of risk.
A water drinking competition seems inherently dangerous and unwise for exactly that reason. Most people who are not medical professionals will not realise that water is harmful in large amounts.
The analogy to this is that encouraging people to go out into the wilderness in search of treasure is going to encourage people to exceed what their comfort zone would be if there's no reward.
Hiking in remote parts of the southwest is an activity encouraged by all manner of government and private entities with a vested interest in the tourism industry. It's simply not an issue. People are still expected to be responsible for their own well being and it's still ok to advertise and promote things that have nonzero amounts of risk associated with them (like beer).
>treasure is going to encourage people to exceed what their comfort zone would be if there's no reward.
Any more than taking dumb selfies for "the "gram" encourages them to exceed their comfort zone?
Hiking in the woods is extremely dangerous if you have no map or navigation skills.
Anyway, these people were searching for hidden treasure, not "hiking". They were led to imagine that leaving the safety of a trail made them more likely to get rich.
You can get injured or killed if you are foolish or unlucky. The term "inherently dangerous" is generally reserved for those situations where even a skilled and knowledgable person is facing a significant risk; the term would be meaningless if expanded in the way you are trying here.
The only way in which hiking is "inherently dangerous" is if you equate that term to include "situations in which I may have to depend solely upon myself."
In an objective appraisal of risk, actual danger is negligible with: (1) water, (2) compass, (3) mylar blanket, (4) rudimentary knowledge of surrounding topography, roads, and settled areas, (5) first aid kit equipped to stop blood loss, & (6) bear spray.
I'm pretty sure that's covered by 'unlucky': it's not the sort of thing that should give any reasonably prepared hiker cause for considering abandoning the practice as too risky. And 'all the time' is a considerable exaggeration when we consider how many times people set off on a hike in any given year.
Shouldn’t we ban national parks from advertising and shut down National Geographic, then? I went to the Grand Canyon and a couple of other parks, and there were plenty of opportunities to die. If I had I wouldn’t want the parks shut down.
The article mentions people quit their jobs and died to find that treasure; he's caused a dangerous gold rush on his own.
I like the idea, but it's caused too much loss of life. I think it'd be better if he had spread out the 'treasure' over much more smaller packages, for example. Of course, there'd still be people that try to find everything.
I'd rather live in a world with hidden treasure, but where the idea of hidden treasure causes some people to torpedo their lives and kill themselves, than one without hidden treasure.
If it weren't the treasure hunt, anyone that unstable would have joined the closest cult anyway.
Could be an awkward situation. If Fenn refuses to disclose where the treasure was buried, he'll go down as one of history's biggest douchebags, at least in the minds of the many people he inspired to search for it.
If he does disclose a location, and the treasure never actually existed, then he risks someone calling BS. ("I searched in that exact spot last summer and here's the GPS history on my phone to prove it.") He would also have to make his way out to the stated location at the spry young age of 89 and dig a plausible-looking hole.
So people are really going to resent him unless the treasure was real and he discloses where it was. It's understandable if the finder remains anonymous, but the burial location had better not.
As one who read the poem and was caught away by the sense of adventure it instilled and dreams of treasure, I read up on the chase. Turns out, the chest was not buried. If you were in the right spot from the poem, you could see it was just placed on the ground.
I always figured it was somewhere near Agua Caliente Canyon, NM. Largely because it was in the right elevation, had the types of brush Fenn said he could smell there (which he later said he wish he had not commented on), was within a range that a sick or dying Forest Fenn could get to fairly quickly (he talked about wanting to go there before he passed away, if he was dying), and Agua Caliente translates as Hot Waters (noted in the poem). - I never got a chance to look, but it will be interesting to find out once the location is revealed.
No bs, I searched that canyon about four years ago. Had a blast hiking those trails and saw some beautiful country, but came up empty. Totally worth it.
I believe it was near or in water, but not buried from what I recall of Fenn's comments about its location (he said it was 'wet'). He said the location he chose reminded him of a plateaued area with a waterfall that he found in the jungles of Vietnam, with a forgotten soldier's grave.
Somebody died as recently as March looking for it. I wonder if Fenn just decided to call it quits and claim somebody found it (if there was anything ever to find at all). I find wanting to remain anonymous a bit of head scratcher since being part of Fenn's treasure might add more value to the goods.
And yet in actual lotteries, (a certain sort of) people routinely waive anonymity for the benefit only (I assume) of the lottery organisation/'s marketing department.
Are you using the term "blind trust" in a non-standard way? My understanding is that it refers to arrangements where the beneficiary doesn't get to know about (or choose) assets held, not where the beneficiary gets to be anonymous.
That Reddit post is funny to read from a 2020 perspective. Things aren't so stable now.
If I won a $600MM prize, a good chunk of the $30MM spending money would go to buying a large property in rural southern Utah with good water rights, quality arable land that can grow fruits/vegetables/hay, an airstrip, and a defensible position. I would stock it with lots of food, guns, ammunition, and diesel fuel.
Having that retreat is as important to me as having the $30MM in treasury notes.
It's basically a transparency thing. Otherwise (well, probably in any case), you'll have people saying the lottery was rigged and the money went to relatives of the the officials running the lottery or something along those lines.
[Oops: That was meant to be a reply to why state lottery recipients sometimes have to be public.]
Why would it be better than any other random way of getting untracked cash? It would be the same difficulty as if you got a bunch of drug money... you suddenly have a lot more money with no way to explain how you got it.
i imagine between writing books, youtube adds on a channel, and other ways I haven't thought of that the winner could monetize the heck out of their win
I assume most people who have heard about Forest Fenn and his treasure know about Kit Williams and his "Masquerade" from the 1970's — an illustrated story book containing a puzzle that would lead to a treasure buried somewhere in England.
If not, Bamber Gascoigne's "Quest for the Golden Hare" (1983) is a fascinating account of the puzzle, and the worldwide (!) search for Kit's treasure.
Truth is stranger than fiction? Yep. The person who unearthed the prize had not solved the puzzle. The party that solved the puzzle did not get the treasure.
What I loved about the solution to Masquerade is that it _seemed_ obvious once we were told what it was and the answer was exact and unambiguous. It's a shame Kit's ex-girlfriend betrayed him and leaked the location before it was solved.
I wonder if people, being more connected today, would have been able to solve Masquerade very quickly.
Bamber doesn't mention anything at all regarding Kit's ex-girlfriend leaking it. It reads more like social engineering by the guy, Ken-somebody, who digs it up.
> On 11 December 1988, The Sunday Times printed a story accusing the winner of the Masquerade contest of being a fraud. "Ken Thomas" was revealed as a pseudonym of Dugald Thompson, and Thompson's business partner, John Guard, was the boyfriend of Veronica Robertson, a former live-in girlfriend of Kit Williams. Guard had allegedly convinced Robertson to help him because both were said to be animal rights activists and Guard promised to donate any profits to the animal rights cause.[1]
> The Sunday Times alleged that while living with Williams, Robertson had learned the approximate physical location of the hare, while remaining ignorant of the proper solution to the book's master riddle.
> Fenn, who lives in Santa Fe, said he hid his treasure as a way to tempt people to get into the wilderness and give them a chance to launch an old-fashioned adventure and expedition for riches.
Pretty cool. I wonder how long before we see that part of the plot of Ready Player One come into being from now?
"It does not actually dictate that the money will be spent in any certain way or towards any particular charity or cause, and there is no legal obligation."
If these billionaires wanted more than just free good publicity, they could whip up actual legal paperwork.
That doesn't mean they won't give away a lot in their remaining years.
I spent a day looking in the mountains of Northern New Mexico last summer based on the clues. Of course I didn't expect to find anything, and I didn't, but it was an awesome day.
Northern New Mexico has some really great mountains.
I originally heard about the treasure from HN a few years back. I wrote a little webapp to help narrow down the available areas. I'm hoping that the location is eventually revealed and that it shows up on one of the layers I came up with...
It would be more in keeping with Bezos' conduct to announce a year-long talent show to determine who wins the prize, and 12 months later declare his son the winner.
IIRC there's an entire online community of treasure hunter-hiders. There was at least one guy I remember wrapping $100 bills around old nails, dipping in wax, and then (re?)inserting the nails into wooden fenceposts. Followed by clues posted online. Things like that. Not 100M, but man that's really raising the stakes. People would do things for $10K that would make your head spin.
There is no need to take risks or get dirty. Just buy shares in a fund that owns shares in each of the exploration companies which are buying satellite imagery to find the treasure.
There is a local treasure called GoldHunt (https://goldhunt.com/) where someone hid $100k (well a chest with some paper that you could claim the $100k). You could buy a map for $25 which was a set of clues (they also just got posted online instantly). It became quite popular when they did the first hunt a few years ago. The problem was that it meant a ton of people would flood an area and trample gardens and parks.
Is it illegal to claim a $1M treasure, actually put an IOU in the box, sell $40 maps for a few years, fill the treasure once you break even, then keep subsequent profit?
I supposed you'd have to figure out a way to make the maps single use.
> It became quite popular when they did the first hunt a few years ago. The problem was that it meant a ton of people would flood an area and trample gardens and parks.
Yep. Still not one single photo of the non existent treasure, neither by the bullshit artist or the fictional person who found it. Why does the media give this guy attention?
He's a total bullshitter. I guarantee he'll never say where exactly the "treasure" was placed because somebody can prove they looked there. There never was any treasure. Forrest Fenn is full of crap.
If you found the treasure, would the savings on taxes be enough to forgo the lucrative and ego stroking talk show circuit, and inevitable reality show?
I would like more detail on this bit. Did they happen to die from unrelated causes during the part of their life they were searching, or did they die a more dangerous death, exploring a cliffside or something?
> Many quit their jobs to dedicate themselves to the search and others depleted their life savings. At least four people are believed to have died searching for it.
We were digging sand castles when "he found it".
Back at the house when his grandfather was having a closer look at the ship, grandad "discovered" an old map and little key inside the ship - strange we hadn't noticed it earlier.
The map had a big X marked on it - also down at the beach near a big cave. I happened to know just that area....
So we went down there and dug in the sand and found a wooden treasure box wrapped in a metal chain and padlocked. When my little boy tried the key in the lock.... it fit!
Inside the box was overflowing with jewellery and coins and weird little trinkets. He had discovered buried treasure!
In fact I had bought the wooden ship, and the wooden jewellery box from the local opportunity shop and also bought $5 worth of shiny junk jewellery and old overseas coins and trinkets and filled it up. I then bought a chain and padlock and wrapped it up and buried it.
He's 11 years old now and still doesn't know the true story. Credit is due to my friend who did this first - he buried a pouch in the sand for his kids to find - I just expanded on the idea with the ship and the map and the treasure box, chains and padlock etc.