Well that's not right, she only had to look through one frame of squares, and he didn't ask her to identify things she's never seen in her home or local country!
(I refer to the American 'parking meters', 'crosswalks', and to a lesser extent traffic lights, that Google makes me spot even on UK-only sites.)
Ha. Maybe. Or is it Google's lack of intercultural competence to not understand that I don't have 'crosswalks' and that traffic lights and (another I forgot above) fire 'hydrants' (not called that) look different here?
It's not like it shows images from around the world, it just shows American images to everyone around the world.
For me it did. ISTR something in Spanish, so I'd guess Mexico at least, and I've definitely seen Asian scripts on road signs sometimes, while having a German IP.
I've seen Asian scripts when asked to identify 'storefronts' (also not called that) - but I just assumed they were takeaways. Sorry - 'takeouts'.
Anyway, regardless of if it's global or just American, the point here is that I don't have to answer questions about images of other countries when I shop on a British high street!
If this was really like shopping online then a loud, brash arsehole would jump between her and the counter as she walked in and demand that she sign up to their newsletter before she was able to look at any goods...
Why do some stores have a captcha as part of their checkout process? I'm noticing that recently and I can't figure it out.
I understand it for registering an account, or even just browsing the store (i.e. prevent scraping), but why make me click the damn traffic lights after you let me put stuff into the cart and got the delivery address? What good does that do except making me abandon my purchase in frustration?
There could be a reason when it comes to card fraud. Card fraudsters need a way to check cards before they use/resell them, so they find a cheap e-commerce and automate the checkout on a low-value item and run the card numbers through there.
Of course, this is a problem manufactured by the card payments industry (we've had the cryptography to make card fraud nonexistent for decades) and it slowly getting fixed by 3D-Secure (also called Strong Customer Authentication) and as usual the US are behind.
> Why do some stores have a captcha as part of their checkout process? I'm noticing that recently and I can't figure it out.
And why doesn't Google optimize it to return "human" straight away when I am logged in with a 15 year old paying account who took a similar test earlier that day same day?
Anyone who knows who are free to answer?
Because otherwise I'll stick with my explanation which is one or more of:
- organizational incompetence (surely someone should be able to code that up, only they don't call the shots and those who do aren't competent to see the issue)
- greed (why do it when we can force people to do unpaid work for us?)
What strikes me is how the web fad naturally grew. From the curiosity of buying online, to accepting more steps to deal with the potential issues, to full fledged different way of doing simple things. In retrospect it's odd.. but on the way it was so obviously right.
If you're working in a job where developers are just dumb code monkeys who get told what to do and do it whatever happens, and that developers aren't considered part of the team behind a feature and have no way to influence what gets built, then leave. There are better jobs out there that won't make you feel ashamed of what you deploy.
I am not sure why people put developers on a morally high status like they are able to choose what kind of job that they can do, then try to shame them publicly for the work they do, but I do not see any difference between a forced developer who wants to have a job and get by in their lives, and a telemarketer making calls to the potential customers.
People complain about telemarketers all the time. It's not like they get a pass.
Sure, the actual blame may fall on whoever decided to hire all those telemarketers to defraud the elderly but... they're also just trying to have a job. The ceo is just trying to have a profitable company. The shareholders are just trying to have a pension. Consumers are just trying to shop conveniently.
From the perspective of the complainer, the thing is the part of the thing that they see. Telemarketing is telemarketers. Software is the UX. Mindless bureaucracy is the person standing in front of them. Etc.
If you're going to come to the defence of anyone, defend someone who is standing in front of the disgruntled consumer, earning peanuts. Developers are generally well paid, mobile and don't ever face the person they're driving crazy.
Anyway, developers (and software companies) put themselves on this high status pedestal in the early 2000s. The web was full of developer philosophy touting developer agency, morals, and such. Comes around. Goes around. Chickens roust. Pick yours cliche.
> Anyway, developers (and software companies) put themselves on this high status pedestal in the early 2000s. The web was full of developer philosophy touting developer agency, morals, and such. Comes around. Goes around. Chickens roust. Pick yours cliche.
Exactly the point I am trying to make. People complain about telemarketers all the time but they actually do know that those people are just trying to get by and have no actual choice.
Developers think other developers are just able to say "f you" to their boss and leave the job and get a new one next day, but this is not the reality. Is this a reality for the majority of audience of HN? Can they do that? Because I can't.
I get what you're saying and it is all relative, but I'd say "yes" in a general sense. Developers have more agency than most people at working class jobs like telemarketers.
"More" agency is not full agency, but if we're thinking in shades of grey, then I think it's a substantial delta. The stuff developers read and ideas they care about have influence.
For example, agile, TDD, and other buzzword methods for managing software teams started by gaining traction among developers. There is no equivalent for telemarketers. No one cares what they read or think. You can spy on their screen, time their toilet breaks, etc. Software companies do not want developers to think they are bullshit. They don't care either way for CS agents.
It is a matter of degrees though. It's not like an average developer can say no! to some crappy verification step that higher-ups promised their payment processor. I'd also say that agency is waning in the era of big tech.
This topic comes up a lot here. How about just 3 days ago [1]? It's so strange, on one hand, we act like software developers are in high demand, and can be choosy about their work, and on the other hand, act like they have no agency over their work and are limited to just saying "yes, boss, whatever you say, boss" to bad software design.
At the end of the day, it's the developer who types in the code and pushes. Developers should share the blame for what they create. It's not just those mean horrible managers forcing us all to write bad UX. It's your choice as a developer to type git commit.
I don't think this opinion comes out of privilege. It you have no subject matter control over your work, you're not a developer--you're a typist.
Developers think other developers are just able to say "f you" to their boss and leave the job and get a new one next day, but this is not the reality.
I didn't actually suggest that. All I said was that people should leave bad jobs. That doesn't have to happen overnight. However, if you recognise that your job is bad and you're not actively looking for a new one then you've made a choice to stay. You've decided that something is worth staying in the job for. At that point everything that you do in the job that's bad, like implementing features that are awful for users, is on you. That's your responsibility. You've chosen (for example) a higher wage at the expense of making thousands of people miserable. You need to own that.
I agree that developers have agency, but (a) most of the stuff this video is parodying is near universal. FB, Google, Spotify, Amazon etc. all have this stuff. (b) If you are going to make "the moral choice" then UI clunkiness might not be the issue you care about most. Maybe you care about UI clunkiness, basic labor rights for lower end employees, environmental morals, monopolies, tax evasion, etc.
I am not sure why people put developers on a morally high status like they are able to choose what kind of job that they can do...
I can't speak for other people, but personally I don't believe it's only developers who should leave jobs they feel are bad. Everyone who works in a job that's a net negative should strive to leave that job. The difference between a developer and a telemarketer is that the is a huge shortage of developers so it's not that hard to find a new role, and it's generally relatively well paid so having the resources to change job is much less of a problem, so any developer who stays in a job that's awful is clearly making a choice to do that.
FWIW I'm also an advocate of systems like UBI and negative income tax that would enable more people to make moral choices about the work they do.
> developers are just dumb code monkeys who get told what to do and do it whatever happens
More to the original point.. if this is the case, the developers arguably aren't developers. The developer is whoever made these highly specific specs.
Honestly, IMO, this is illusionary. There is rarely, if ever, such thing as a spec other than the code itself that leaves no decisions to whoever writes code.
my first professional job was similar to this, working on a project which I personally believed to be a totally useless and has no chance of success. at the end I had to park the car wherever the driver wanted and looked for a different job. however I very much sympathize with those who do work in similar conditions as their first/entry job really. could be hard.
That doesn't put the primary fault onto devs though. There is a significant amount of pressure to actually build all these stupid systems coming from multiple fronts (e.g. people who believe it is more secure, business who demand certain features). Surely primary responsibility goes to the person who demands the feature. If one developer refuses, they can find another developer without too much difficulty. It would require most developers to refuse, whereas it only requires a few business owners to make other choices.
(Senior Developers could probably respond "here's some better ways". But Junior devs often hardly know their own name, let alone what better alternatives there are to this security theatre.)
>That doesn't put the primary fault onto devs though
I agree on that, the primary fault is at the hands of the one who thought that up and pushed it through to completion, but "just doing my job" and "if I don't do it someone else will" doesn't pass the smell test to me.
Meta: This comment was dead a moment ago. Now it's alive and shows no indication of being voted down. How do comments become undead? Are some people still able to vote on them?
If you have enough reputation you can "vouch" for dead comments. As far as I can see, it at least temporarily resurrects them (perhaps if enough people "vouch").
This is the number one reason Amazon is winning everything. It's not even the cheapest anymore. But it's such a hassle shopping at other websites. Even supermarkets that should know better - making an order, even once you've clicked 'checkout' is sometimes 10 clicks or more. It's painful!
Indeed. I remember having a quite frustrating time convincing Amazon to ship to my work address, as for some reason it didn't fit its understanding of what an address should look like and it didn't "validate". The address is not even that uncommon (it's just not on a street/square/etc. but on a campus, and has no building number), and I never had that problem in other websites.
But that was years ago, now the address is already registered and it's not something I remember every time I shop there. Instead, what I experience every day is a very streamlined checkout process (the only small frustration is that the option to "group shipments into a large shipment" seldom appears now. The other day I bought two little boxes, identical except for the color, for about maybe €9 each, and they shipped separately, which is a bit jarring).
"Really well" is overselling it quite a bit. I can search for the exact product name as displayed on a product page and still not have it find hits. Ebay's search is quite a bit better.
Amazon has also prioritized customer experience both when things go right and when things go wrong.
Many other online stores are all shiny with nice slogans but if you have a problem and need customer support then good luck.
This is also visible in the fact that Amazon makes it simple to cancel an order before it ships (just one click) and that they don't charge until an item ships.
1)Keep the item, no charge (small ticket price item delivered twice by mistake).
2)We've refunded you, and for your inconvenience we've topped up your gift card by £5. (delayed delivery so cancelled).
Most other UK stores:
1)Please jump through several hoops and go an hour out of way to send it back to us (at your own expense) then it's 50/50 if ever hear another thing.
2)No reply whatsoever
Many stores treat the package someone else's problem as soon as it's out of their shop. Amazon seems to be the only one who cares about the tracking number too(this may vary country..).
Yes absolutely this! Amazon customer support is beyond reproach. I even had free prime for about a year because every time a parcel arrived a day late, they'd give me an extra couple of months of prime.
I don't like it that amazon is taking over everything, but it's happening because they're really good at what they do.
My Dad shops from Iceland (a UK discount grocer) online because it's free delivery over a certain amount.
The other week he said they were not accepting his card so, assuming he was making some obvious mistake, I tried with my own card and found the same problem. Using another card, the same.
Two weeks later, the same problem. Yes I emailed support at the time and never got a reply?
And yes, this is also one of the supermarkets that requires 4 or 5 clicks after you have selected to checkout.
No doubt they'll be blaming amazon for their fall in sales of late.
Have you ever done any calculations on how much you actually save when doing "Tesco vs Iceland and Waitrose(surprise!)" comparison? When doing personal calculations and taking into account certain peculiarity of each one of them (For example Waitrose does free delivery over certain amount, will substitute items for items for the higher amount/price(for free) if selected item isn't available, give items for free if they have a short end date) I found that for me in particular online grocery shopping with Waitrose is 5-10% more expensive, while I prefer the taste of Waitrose food much more
I agree that 'free delivery' can work out costing more or about the same as paid. Have I done a proper calculation though, no. My Dad is awkward though and will convince himself he's saving money regardless.
I used to think that "discount grocery shops" are much cheaper than other grocery shops but after doing comparison for products that I buy, I found there is a little difference in price, while the quality/taste is very different.
The biggest threat I see to this though is Apple Pay (for mobile web). When sites integrate with this properly, it enables them to match the Amazon experience. No need to register or enter any details, just one fingerprint, and all done.
That's great for the minority who use Apple devices. It's not going to touch Amazon though.
If there was a cross-platform payment service which integrates with Apple, Google, Samsung (et al) Pay, and then is ubiquitously employed on mobile web, now that could make a dent in Amazon sales.
I doubt an Apple Pay-like solution alone will help much. Even on sites that support Apple Pay, a lot of them still ruin the experience by making you go through several screens, ask for details, etc despite Apple Pay being able to provide them everything they need (name, delivery address and shipping options) and make it a one-click experience.
It would certainly help. I think the push needs to come from banks and their apps, or for an independent payment processor to become popular enough (a la PayPal).
The integration needs to be easy and well implemented. I've lost count of how many sites I've gone through "1-click" pay with PayPal and then still had to enter my address details again because they haven't integrated it correctly with their shopping cart.
Everything is behavior online and behavioral design is everything for a smooth experience. What we could need is a mechanism where you can reliably and safely provide stores with ALL required personal and payment details with the click of a button. Currently, not even autofill works satisfactory due to a myriad of reasons.
We have that mechanism, it's called Apple Pay. I believe Google Pay does the same. The problem is that for both incompetence (they don't have good developers that can integrate it in their third-party eCommerce solution) and malice (one-click Apple Pay checkout won't allow them to implement dark patterns and upsells) it's never done.
The way men behave in this video makes me feel weird - am I homophobic? I don't meet people like this on daily basis, I don't meet them at all. Are there men like this or is this just acting which is an exaggeration? I don't recognize my feelings well, but it feels hard. I wouldn't feel like myself around such a man.
You're not homophobic by saying he's weird, you are by saying it might make you homophobic, who told you he was gay? He's just annoying and falsly nice to represent the website
They are acting. Think "your call is very important to us" or when a customer service monkey tells you how sorry they are because their company screwed up (but then makes up all kinds of BS reasons as to why they couldn't provide an acceptable resolution).
Maybe, yes, a little bit? At the very least it's worth considering that possibility -- it's not necessarily any slight against you: most people were raised in cultures that are at least a bit casually homophobic, and it's hard to ask anyone to completely transcend the culture you were born into.
On the other hand, maybe you're reacting negatively to the faux-obsequiousness, the pretending to be subservient and helpful while actually obstructing and frustrating the customer's desires? Does the female shop assistant also annoy you? In the same way or a different way?
I actually have, on multiple occasions, had high street shops ask for my name and other details. Thankfully I've never had any problems making the purchase after I politely decline to give them anything.
Yes, the intrusive marketing cancer is actually spreading to the high street too. They're now asking for e-mails under the excuse of sending you your receipt and saving the planet (no need for paper) but obviously you will get spam and no doubt that this e-mail will also be shared with advertising partners such as Facebook.
I very much enjoy telling people in shops that I don't have an email address when they ask.
You can practically see the cogs whirring as they try to comprehend that before they realise that, of course, I'm looking them in eye and lying to them.
The evidence is in my inbox. A high street shop asked for my e-mail, I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt (because of GDPR and all that). Of course I then received an e-mail from a third-party asking me about "feedback" (and no doubt it would've been shared with other third-parties behind the scenes too). I'm pretty sure I made a GDPR complaint but it didn't go anywhere.
The GDPR is a joke and will never be taken seriously until those promised "4% of global turnover" fines actually start falling down on the offenders.
I often get people in shops ask for my email to send the receipt to, a paper receipt isn't even an option they offer. Thankfully when I ask for a paper receipt it's not usually a problem either. If I've just paid for the product, why would I want to give them my email address? Someone needs to make a receipt aggregator or something.
There are receipt aggregators; there's no reason to trust them though. There's too much of an amount of money to be made in this niche and thus no reason for any company to provide a honest solution.
Yeah that's fair, I should have elaborated and said "someone should make a privacy friendly one". I don't even care much about long term storage, I just want to be able to scan a QR code generated at check-out and have it loaded onto my phone.
You're likely right about there not being a good reason to provide an honest solution.
(I refer to the American 'parking meters', 'crosswalks', and to a lesser extent traffic lights, that Google makes me spot even on UK-only sites.)