I don't know how it is in the US at the moment, but in the UK we're in the bizarro world where the mainstream progressive party (Labour - like the Democrats in the US) seems to have a growing number of people, including young, media-savvy people you'd think would be extremely progressive, who are pretty openly anti-Semitic, while still considering themselves anti-racist.
It's crazy and frightening.
For example one popular progressive actress' response to George Floyd was to... claim it was a Jewish conspiracy... then retweeted by a senior person in the party who was almost leader. Almost in line to be PM of the UK! Bizarre.
> For example one popular progressive actress' response to George Floyd was to... claim it was a Jewish conspiracy...
I think that's quite a spin there. First of all, here's the claim:
"During the interview, Maxine Peake claimed that police in America who knelt on George Floyd's neck had learned the tactic from 'seminars with Israeli secret services'.
This may or may not be factually accurate, but seminars with Israeli security forces do exist, it is plausible that Derek Chauvin attended such a seminar, and that this particular method of restraint was presented.
Many people don't realize that this method of restraint is (or was) in the police books. Derek Chauvin may have applied poor judgement in using it, but it was part of his training material.
Making this connection between Israeli security forces (of all) and this particular incident may well have anti-semitic intentions, but this actress does deserve the benefit of the doubt.
She was forced to acknowledge it was completely unfounded. Her own party, which itself has massive issues with anti-semitism, described it plainly as an 'antisemitic conspiracy theory'. When anti-semites are saying you're unacceptably anti-semetic you might need to stop and think about what you're doing with your life.
Why do you think she just randomly made a completely unfounded accusation out of nowhere? Like what on earth did it have to do with anything? Why bring up the Israelis? Why's that the relevant part? Especially when it's not true?
Because she's anti-semetic and it was an insane way to pin anti-black racism at least partially on Jewish people.
It's also relevant because it was yet another mask-slip moment from the progressive in-crowd.
Why did she do it? Because she read something online that upset her, remembered it as fact, then just forwarded that information. That's a very human thing to do.
Furthermore, in this case, the connection appears to have been made by an Israeli activist[1]:
The only link to this tactic in the story is made by an activist, Neta Golan, who told the paper: “When I saw the picture of killer cop Derek Chauvin murdering George Floyd by leaning in on his neck with his knee as he cried for help and other cops watched, I remembered noticing when many Israeli soldiers began using this technique of leaning in on our chest and necks when we were protesting in the West Bank sometime in 2006.”
Even if I'm being super charitable, I'd suggest the reason that she remembered it and took it as fact is because it aligned with her anti-Semitic prejudices.
First, I'd suggest that we separate anti-zionism and anti-Israel sentiment from antisemitism, because many Jews even within Israel are anti-zionist and even anti-Israel. Then, we can acknowledge that holding strong convictions against the current Israeli government, the occupation of the West-Bank and the treatment of Gaza is essentialy mainstream among Jews worldwide.
I would agree that the left has an obsession with this particular issue that is disproportionate, but if hatred of Jews is the motivation, where is the smoking gun?
> First, I'd suggest that we separate anti-zionism and anti-Israel sentiment from antisemitism
If you are thinking the progressives in the UK are making reasonable and legitimate criticism of the state of Israel and nothing more, then you're dangerously ignorant of what's going on at polite dinner-parties in middle-class London.
The reality is that the former leader of the left-wing party in the UK is liking on Facebook murals like this:
Indeed, if you were to conflate the depiction of Freemasonry/Illuminati and big noses with the "Jewish World Conspiracy", you might interpret this mural as "antisemitic":
However, only two of the depicted figures are actually Jewish. As with Israel, you can make the same distinction between "antagonists that happen to be Jewish" and Jews in general.
If you buy into "horseshoe theory", you may well assume that some leftists must be stashing copies of "The Protocols" somewhere, ready to distribute when the time is right. However, for now I still don't see the smoking gun.
These are obviously intended to be caractectures of stereotypical Jewish people with stereotypical anti-semetic libels.
Even if you could argue for some reason the particular people were relevant and actually looked like this... christ why woudln't you stop yourself and say 'wait a minute this could be misconstrued as anti-semetic, maybe I should adjust it'?
How many examples of anti-semitism in the British progressive left do you need?
How many people sacked by their own party and described by their own party as anti-semetic before you think 'oh right maybe these people are anti-semetic'?
> These are obviously intended to be caractectures of stereotypical Jewish people with stereotypical anti-semetic libels.
If it was "obviously" intended to portray Jews, where is the "Star of David"?
At best, you could argue that this is a dog-whistle to all these supposed closet antisemites among the left.
> Even if you could argue for some reason the particular people were relevant and actually looked like this...
I can argue that, because that is what is being portrayed here, according to the artist himself.
> christ why woudln't you stop yourself and say 'wait a minute this could be misconstrued as anti-semetic, maybe I should adjust it'?
Adjust how? Is there a guideline by the ADL on the proportion of Jewish noses for the purpose of caricature? By some standard, anything involving a Jew can be misconstrued as "antisemitic" one way or another.
Unfortunately, if you want to portray "the masonic elite oppressing the masses", you can't get around the fact that this trope has been used by out-and-proud antisemites and ordinary anti-capitalists alike.
> How many examples of anti-semitism in the British progressive left do you need?
Let's start with "one". You have moved the goalpost repeatedly. First, this actress, now this artist. In either case, you failed to provide the smoking gun.
Now we're moving on to allegations of harassment by low-level party-members. By that standard, you'll have trouble finding any political group that has a clean shirt.
If I don't accept the conflation of Trumpism with anti-semitism or white nationalism, then I'm not going to accept the case you just made either. An allegation of antisemitism (or other -isms based on identity) is quite serious. It must be supported by solid evidence, not hearsay, not interpretation.
Wow, while reading your comment at first i thought asking if you're talking about actual anti-Semitism, or Israel criticisms deflected to the former. Thanks for the source, yikes!
The situation was quite bizarre in Berlin last month as well. There was a march in Neukolln (hip/leftist neighbourhood with strong middle eastern immigrant population). Muslims and leftists openly screaming extremist anti-jewish slogans, claiming to fight the racial oppression.
While AFD (the right wing anti-immigration party labeled as fascist) opportunistically warned of raising antisemitism.
The conflation of Trump supporters with (anti-semitic) white supremacism quickly falls apart when considering that figures like Richard Spencer will openly endorse Biden (as an accelerationist).
Trumps unrelenting support for Israel is simply too hard to stomach for somebody who is strongly concerned about a „zionist occupied government“.
Maybe Trump has a really big tent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_tent) but it has lots of little compartments. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you.
It's not clear why this article was posted on HN. The only relevance are passages like this which show the media's obvious double standard.
> Many have compared Trump's policy of separating children from their parents at the border to the Holocaust. But that comparison is wrong. It's horrible, it's reprehensible, but it's not genocide.
There hasn't been a single word about 'children in cages' since Biden took office.
Are you saying that this 2018 article should have been updated to reflect the changing situation, or that children are still being separated from their families under Biden?
I don't know how it is in the US at the moment, but in the UK we're in the bizarro world where the mainstream progressive party (Labour - like the Democrats in the US) seems to have a growing number of people, including young, media-savvy people you'd think would be extremely progressive, who are pretty openly anti-Semitic, while still considering themselves anti-racist.
It's crazy and frightening.
For example one popular progressive actress' response to George Floyd was to... claim it was a Jewish conspiracy... then retweeted by a senior person in the party who was almost leader. Almost in line to be PM of the UK! Bizarre.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manches...