> "[...] we have decided to take additional time over the coming months to collect input and make improvements before releasing these critically important child safety features."
Seeing how this situation was handled by Apple so far, my cynical take on this is that they want to wait for the storm to pass/get smaller and then will continue deployment of this tech but with better PR strategy. I hope to be wrong but the latest moves by Apple completely evaporated the remaining trust I had for them.
Why not trust Apple? I get that you dislike their plan but consider three things:
* they do want to help keep your children safe
* they told you in detail how the system would work
* they are holding off on releasing after the world gave them feedback
Who else is doing better? I get that you don’t like the system, but how do you solve it? Is it not worth solving? Too easy to nix ideas without contributing to the conversation.
Well-meaning intentions are irrelevant to what's effectively happening on the bottom line.
> * they told you in detail how the system would work
This is great though. In any normal situation, this would build trust. Not so much in this case, because of the impact on privacy and potential for abuse.
> * they are holding off on releasing after the world gave them feedback
The crucial part is that they still intend to continue with their plan. They'll possibly modify it, but we'll have to see what that means. Well-intentioned backdoors are still backdoors.
> Who else is doing better?
That's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Just to humour the question: Android (AOSP), Pine (from PinePhone), Librem, CalyxOS and GrapheneOS are some products and operating systems that I could think off that respect the users' privacy better.
> I get that you don’t like the system, but how do you solve it? Is it not worth solving? Too easy to nix ideas without contributing to the conversation.
Customers don't have any responsibility to solve this. It's totally in the customers' right to complain and say "we don't want this feature". For good reasons, as shown by all the experts and privacy advocacy groups.
I would like some substantiation for your claim that Android is doing better in terms of privacy. Everything I’ve seen more or less points to the opposite.
Android doesn't scan the files on our phones against a government ban list with the intent to upload said files to and alert law enforcement. We can confirm this because Android is open source. This makes Android objectively more secure and more private.
On this particular issue, I don't trust them, because they've built a capability to surveil private data of millions of people, on their private devices. Basically, to default to "you're the criminal and we want to verify that you're not". They presented this capability as a "safety measure". With that, you can consider:
1. If they weren't aware of the potential consequences of the system they've built, it's just foolish and shows that their decisions/predictions can't be trusted. (I don't believe they weren't aware of the potential of the system to be abused)
2. They were aware of the potential negative consequences (massive at scale) and yet decided to use PR tactics to hide that. If that's the case, they can't be trusted due to misdirection and lying.
If you want other example, the first that comes to mind is their actions related to the butterfly keyboard fiasco. No (real) acknowledgement of the mistake, no apology but using PR to spin that into a new feature of the next model. Another is their monopolistic, rent-seeking behavior with App Store policies.
The problem with CSAM is definitely worth solving but spying on everybody's data is not the right level to look for solutions. I imagine it would make executives feel better about themselves but - as far as I understand - it doesn't meaningfully address the root of the issue.
> They did not state that they are changing things to address the concerns.
The full title (was cut from HN…)
> Apple Delays Rollout of Controversial Child Safety Features to Make Improvements
And the actual page with Apple’s words:
> Update as of September 3, 2021: Previously we announced plans for features intended to help protect children from predators who use communication tools to recruit and exploit them and to help limit the spread of Child Sexual Abuse Material. Based on feedback from customers, advocacy groups, researchers, and others, we have decided to take additional time over the coming months to collect input and make improvements before releasing these critically important child safety features.
CSAM is more or less a documention of the crime. Isn't too late for keeping the children safe by that point? It should be a police matter and I don't think they are very much helped by some flawed automatic report system spamming them.
They never wanted to "keep your children safe" as this "plan" has a hole in it big enough to drive a semi through. As in the criminals know it's there and can avoid it. No this was to please the government a little bit and so they can say "look we're thinking of the children". Governments want this so they can eventually add more scanning On Your Phone in the future for anything and everything. Just look at what's going on in Australia right now with authoritarian type surveillance getting passed in 24 hour session. Western nations aren't safe from the Stasi mentality if we don't fight back. Donate to EFF and ACLU today please.
Where do people get this idea I should trust a company? I should never trust a company. That's nonsense. It's like trusting a lawnmower to watch your hamster.
I think this is the part that far, far too many people are ignoring.
Do I, personally, think this is a good thing for Apple to add and do? Ehh....not at all sure. I do have concerns about both the precedent set by it doing the scanning on everyone's iPhones, and the potential technical issues I've seen raised about the actual functioning of the system.
But seriously, *who is doing better*??
Firstly: Is there anyone out there who has a better, more user-respectful method of scanning for CSAM? A method that doesn't essentially say "as soon as you give us any access to your photos, we will use them for any purpose we deem worthwhile to us"? Because despite all the brouhaha, that is absolutely not the attitude Apple has taken in this. They have made abundantly clear that they have no intention of ever using systems of this nature for anything other than scanning for CSAM.
And secondly: Even if Apple implemented this today, exactly the way it's been described, is there anyone who has a better track record on user privacy? Is there any device or OS manufacturer that has openly expressed and followed through on a commitment to protecting users' data?
I agree completely. In military parlance it's called "softening the blow". People who say "this is a slippery slope fallacy" simply aren't paying attention. Look at Europe and Australia passing all kinds of laws to have social media spying on everyone. It can happen. In the USA Texas just passed a law to spy on women who are getting abortion and trying to limit free speech about it in an attempt to push most of the policing off to private citizens like in Handmaid's Tale. It's insane that people can't see threats on democracy and liberty from all these angles.
Google is doing better as they are not actively scanning my phone for CSAM data (and eventually other data) as a USA policing agent without a warrant. That's what google is doing better. As is windows. They don't scan for material on your phone either. If you have something to prove that they do scan for illegal stuff for reporting to police forces without a warrant then please show us.
Seeing how this situation was handled by Apple so far, my cynical take on this is that they want to wait for the storm to pass/get smaller and then will continue deployment of this tech but with better PR strategy. I hope to be wrong but the latest moves by Apple completely evaporated the remaining trust I had for them.