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And the SR-71 is so simple the complexity falls off a cliff at the engine, hence your inclination to only care about that in comparing the two.

The space shuttle is like a reusable mobile space station, airlocks and all. Occupants of the SR-71 wore space suits the entire time, there's a lot of minimalism on display in the SR-71 which is a large part of what makes it so glorious.



The SR-71 was very complex. For example it had multiple heat exchangers to get rid of heat, to transfer it to the fuel before it was combusted. The titanium structure was complex to maintain. Welding needed to be done in "bubble" work stations under protective gas.


> The titanium structure was complex to maintain. Welding needed to be done in "bubble" work stations under protective gas

Operational complexity is orthogonal, and tends to be inversely proportional to simplicity in implementation...

For instance they needed to refuel the thing immediately upon reaching operating temperature in flight, since it leaked like a sieve on the runway until everything expanded. Rather than try fix that somehow with more engineering, they shifted the complexity into operations.

IIRC it couldn't even start its own engines cold, relying instead on hot-rod v8s setup on the runway to bootstrap the thing. More operational complexity in favor of leaving an entire subsystem out of the plane.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the SR-71, but so much of that appreciation stems from its ruthless pursuit of its narrow operational goals, for as much what it isn't as it is.

It's the polar opposite of stuff like the space shuttle or F-35 where the aggregate complexity is through the roof to accommodate a kitchen sink.


Oh come on. SR-71 was a complex military aircraft. Maybe it was not as complex as the space shuttle. Certainly much more complex than an F-16.

One can start here for example http://www.enginehistory.org/Convention/2014/SR-71Inlts/SR-7...


>Operational complexity is orthogonal, and tends to be inversely proportional to simplicity in implementation ...

I'm not sure what your point is with this. All complexity is operational complexity.


> All complexity is operational complexity.

Uh, what?

Example to illustrate the difference:

Automatic transmission in an automobile, operationally simpler than the manual constant-mesh trans it broadly replaced: Driver (AKA the Operator) selects drive or reverse when stationary, no need to participate in gear changing while in motion. Substantially more complex in implementation in exchange; go look at the hydraulic valve body of your average slushbox.

Manual trans: Simple implementation, single clutch assembly, sets of gears selected mechanically by axially sliding dogs on splined shafts. Operationally complex since the driver must continuously participate in the selecting of gears and clutch operation while in motion.


Oh I see it now, you mean at the time of operation by the end-user.

I was thinking about the operational complexity of developing/manufacturing such thing, hence why for me it seemed to be virtually the same thing.

Thanks for taking your time to clarify this.


The arguably most complex technology of Space Shuttle was SSME. Also, arguably the most important part of LEO rocket technology is engine - as soon as engines matured enough, space era started. Yes, there are gyros and superlight tanks, but Lambda-4S still does illustrate the importance. And hypersonic winged flight problems were greatly decreased in the Space Shuttle case by a "brute force" approach with ceramic tiles.

SSME was more or less repeated in results by RD-0120, and rather soon. I'd argue RD-0410 was more complex. SR-71 engine works in two different modes, and even today is not really repeated elsewhere. I think that shows how awesome the SR-71 design was - especially, but not only, for its time.

I'd appreciate a good analysis of design problems and solutions of SR-71 to decide which project was technically more complex.


You seem to be suggesting but not outright saying something that is a misconception: The SR-71 did in fact have a pressurized cockpit, which was also air conditioned as well (it had to be, because the aircraft would cook the crew otherwise.)

The SR-71 was sophisticated in other ways as well; for instance in having ejection seats. In fact the first four shuttle flights (all Columbia) had ejection seats too and guess where they got those seats from? The SR-71 of course. And on those flights with ejection seats, guess what the shuttle crew wore? They wore pressure suits, like those worn by SR-71 crew! They stopped wearing those starting with STS-5, when they removed the ejection seats. However the pressure suits (though not the ejection seats) came back after the demise of the Challenger.

What I am not saying: that the shuttle was simple.

What I am saying: That the SR-71 was more sophisticated than you've given it credit for.


I think the two of you are largely in agreement, but GP rightly points out that the SR-71 was less complex than it could have been and that this is in party why it was so successful. The ability to leave stuff out in engineering exercises can lead to substantial benefits and that's worth noticing.




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