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"Some people have to work 2 jobs, maybe 60 or 70 hour weeks - that sucks, but it's still better than literally being a serf."

This is definitely someone who was never in desperate poverty, lol



Spoken like someone who has never been a serf.


I mean, you are kinda flippantly dismissing my claim... do you disagree? You would rather be a serf?

Today we have all of modern technology to help us - we have vaccines for debilitating diseases. If you break your leg, you don't just die... And even the lowest class of people can afford smartphones and access the internet.

These are all vast and material improvements to quality of life


Having been in that position, I can genuinely say I would rather be a Russian serf, absolutely illiterate and uneducated, knowing nothing at all about how destitute my conditions are, than being in the position I am today (or especially in the position I once was).

That reminds me of a major example of noblesse oblige: the emancipation of all serfs by Alexander II. Many went on to own and operate factories, and improve their material circumstances greatly (before Stalin destroyed it all) -- but some did not. And those that did not were likely spiritually worse-off being factory-hands working directly for a petit bourgeoise.

Whether or not this event was good or bad is subjective to one's personal values.


If you think serfs did not know how destitute they were because they were "illiterate and uneducated", then you have a far too rosy view of history.

If you were in their shoes, you would have clearly known how desperately poor you were. You knew because they lived in a hovel and can only heat it when it gets super cold. You knew because you saw a child starve to death after a bad harvest because you don't have any money to buy food for them. You knew because you only have a few sets of crappy clothing and holes in your shoes but can't afford to buy new ones. You knew because your mother died from a painful illness dies because you can't afford the medication.

You knew because, despite being a serf, despite being uneducated, you are not a complete moron.


I don't think its a matter of being a moron or not.

I've been in the conditions you describe, even much worse. Rarely does the mind wander to "this sucks, this really fucking sucks. Things need to change." You're too preoccupied with survival, and doing what you need to do. There is simply no time or extra energy to ruminate on one's material -- much spiritual -- state.

The only reason I got out of such a situation was because I knew there were things I could do to change my material circumstances, and escape such a fate. Had I not---had I not been educated or lived in "greener pastures"---I'm certain I would've continued to live like that and made peace with my circumstances, and made the best of them.

Materially, the circumstances were awful. But the few people I was surrounded with, who shared in such destitution, really made it very bearable, even pleasant. Having "lost" some, really did not give the same anguish as it does now. At the time, it just meant I had one less person to rely on, and one less person that would make the day go by faster, and so on. It wasn't emotional. Such is a luxury for others with time and resources.

Being "in the moment" and always working hard to survive gave me purpose. Being surrounded by others of the same fiber gave me belonging.

Would I go back, knowing what I know about the world? Never. I know far too much about how things "could be" to ever be in those material circumstances again.

Were the entire world to collapse, and I to lose my memory of all the past, I'm certain my spirit would be better off.

Alas, I and all the people around me, are too educated. We've been taught of bad and good. Of what we should strive for; of what "success" means; how we should think and act so as to be "good"; and what "bad" things and circumstances we should avoid, even be sad, shameful, or any other array of negative emotions, about.

The world we've been born into is hyper-focused on materialism, and there is no escape. There's no way to survive outside this system; and so those neural pathways rebalance and rewrite themselves so that we may find a place, any place at all, in this place.


The hypothetical surf that we talked about would readily trade their existence of starving to death and watching their their family die for one of materialism. if you say that you would rather be such a person, in their shoes, you are fooling yourself


We value different things.

I would rather be a serf, or even a golden retriever.




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