> If you didn't trust anyone with the keys to it while you were alive, why should anyone have it?
Wills and inheritance have been a part of human society since the beginning of civilization, I think it’s more likely we will need to find a way to make new technology adapt to society and not the other way around
Yeah, but inheritance law has changed a lot over the centuries: before the French revolution only the first child (possibly son, I don't recall right now) could inherit, then the revolutionary government made a big deal of splitting properties equally among siblings in order to break up large estates. After WWII most Western countries had very punishing inheritance taxes, and that's been dialed back in the 70s. Some economists (Piketty and co) make a big deal of bringing back high inheritance taxes and using them to finance a universal basic capital to be disbursed at a young age.
In a sense, due to the deflationary nature of most crypto, dying without telling anyone what the key to your wallet is, is equivalent to redistributing all your funds to everyone in a way that is proportional to the amount everybody already owns. So it's kinda regressive, which seems to align well with the current crypto political climate...
Then again maybe this addresses the inheritance tax issue. Instead of debating how much money goes to heirs vs the state, folks net worth could just "evaporate" on death, thereby slightly (presumably) reducing the supply of whatever currency was held at the time of death.
In this case, it wasn't his money! It was the Quadriga customer wallet!
Besides, "how do I ensure my wife and/or children get my wealth when I die" is a question humans have been addressing for thousands of years. Only a bitcoiner could be so nihilist to not care.
> Only a bitcoiner could be so nihilist to not care.
I feel like the people I know who are most enthusiastic about Bitcoin are the ones who care most about generational wealth and the long-term mindset. There are tons of ways to establish backups for family members (multi signature wallets, time locked wallets.)
Most people don't trust their adult children with access to their wealth, and yet they leave it as an inheritance to them when they die. Often even accompanied by a will
> What's wrong, if your wealth distilled to the limits of abstraction dies with you?
What do you mean, what's wrong? Everything is wrong.
If I have children, I absolutely want them to inherit everything I own when I die. I want them to use it all to reach even further than I have and be more successful and richer than I was. This is how wealth is built across generations.
I don't want my money to be forever lost in the unimaginably large cryptographic search space. I certainly don't want my money to go to anyone other than my children, especially the government.
> If you haven't shared it with anyone, why would anyone get it?
This is the wrong model, technically it causes micro deflation that would be similar to distributing it to everyone weighted by their current amount. The rich get richer-er (in an absolute sense, but not in a proportional sense).
The effect is probably minuscule on a case by case basis, but if it were happening on nation scale it might make a difference.
I mean, another way to look at this is that wealth, assuming it’s reasonably liquid, can be exchanged for other goods (that is, after all, the only real point of wealth in the first place).
Surely you wouldn’t think it’s absurd to expect that if someone dies with some extra food, that other people ought to make use of that food, even if they hadn’t made a formal last will.
On the other hand, if money is destroyed and not replaced that then makes everyone else's money more valuable as no one else's wealth (and hence overall wealth) has been affected.
I doubt that’s true in any meaningful sense. You could say the same thing for food: if you make it more scarce at some point you will probably observe an increase in price of existing food. And yet you could have eaten the food instead of destroyed it.
I believe the parent here is making a distinction between "capital" and "money"; "money" being a claim against real physical "capital".
When a pile of "capital" is destroyed (i.e. a bushel of wheat spoils, or a factory burns to the ground, or the lyrics to Bohemian Rhapsody are somehow lost forever) then this is a loss to society in general and to the owner of that "capital" in particular. If a pile of "money" is destroyed (i.e. Pablo Escobar burns $2MM in currency, private key to crypto wallet is lost) there is no corresponding loss of real physical "capital". There is simply a reduction in aggregate outstanding claims against the unchanged real physical "capital". So the unaffected holders of the other claims see their purchasing power increase, i.e. they no longer have to outbid the person whose "money" was destroyed, they have now "cut out" the loser from claims against "capital".
> When a pile of "capital" is destroyed (i.e. a bushel of wheat spoils, or a factory burns to the ground, or the lyrics to Bohemian Rhapsody are somehow lost forever)…
Well, at least one of these examples is actually capital (the factory). Of the remainder, one is just plain property, not a capital good, and the other is information. Capital is property which serves as a means of production. Sometimes the term is used loosely to include highly marketable goods (money) which can stand in for the means of production (e.g. "raising capital"), or even more loosely as in "human capital" (referring to the capacity for labor as a means of production), but it does not include commodities consumed in the production process, such as the wheat; nor information, which is non-rivalrous and thus not property, much less capital.
With that said, you're basically correct about the difference between currency other forms of property—goods with utility beyond their use in trade. For the most part there is no advantage to society in having a larger or smaller amount of currency (in aggregate). For economic calculation it's best if the supply just remains constant; any variation will temporarily affect the allocation of other resources, but eventually the value of the currency will adjust so that the total purchasing power of the currency equals all the goods available for purchase. It can cause problems if the supply changes too rapidly, making prices unstable, or if so much currency is lost that it starts to impact divisibility. For example, if bitcoins grew in value to the point where one satoshi was worth a month of labor we would need to modify the protocol to add more significant digits, or introduce a parallel system for day-to-day transactions, much like silver vs. gold.
This is why I added "assuming it’s reasonably liquid" to my initial comment. If one's wealth is reasonably liquid, then I don't think it makes much sense to make a distinction between whether it's "capital" or "money." For the vast majority of people, I think this is a reasonable assumption. If you could liquidate the deceased person's estate and exchange it for consumables or capital and donate those to a good cause, is that really worse for society than the nebulous idea of increasing the value of everyone's money by destroying the deceased person's money? I guess I'm having trouble seeing the distinction between "destroying existing capital is bad" and "destroying money that could have been exchanged for capital or used to create capital is good."
> If you could liquidate the deceased person's estate and exchange it for consumables or capital and donate those to a good cause, is that really worse for society than the nebulous idea of increasing the value of everyone's money by destroying the deceased person's money?
That would depend on who gets to decide what counts as "a good cause". I can think of worse ways the purchasing power could be employed than distributing it widely among other users of the currency. Even assuming the best of intentions, you're still directing resources rather arbitrarily away from other goals in favor of the selected cause, which is not necessarily a net benefit to society.
In general it makes sense to follow the wishes of the deceased, if they are known—it serves no good purpose to distinguish between gifts made just before death vs. ones made at the time of death via a will, and doing so penalizes those who die unexpectedly before making their bequests. Beyond that, I see no reason why relatives of the deceased should have an automatic claim in the absence of a will—but their claim is stronger at least than any the state might make, so given the choice I'd rather see the property go to the heirs than the state. Personally, though, in the absence of a will I would just consider the property abandoned and available for anyone to freely use and thus claim for themselves via homesteading. In some cases that process may have already begun—for example, if the owner of a house dies without leaving a will then anyone else who was already living there (presumably the deceased's family) would have priority to assume ownership once the deceased's claim was abandoned. Their prior investment in the home didn't matter as long as it had an owner, but with that owner gone it should count in their favor for the homesteading process.
> That would depend on who gets to decide what counts as "a good cause". I can think of worse ways the purchasing power could be employed than distributing it widely among other users of the currency.
Yes, but the dependency on what counts as a good cause also applies to distributing wealth indiscriminately among all holders of a currency.
It applies to some extent no matter what you do, but with this approach the purchasing power is spread so widely that no one will even notice the difference. Also, destroying the currency or otherwise making it permanently inaccessible when the owner dies is for all practical purposes indistinguishable from the owner living and simply never spending it, so nothing really changes.
Yes, but again you could say the exact same thing about any capital or food the person had when they died, especially if they weren't extremely wealthy. But I thought we had agreed that destroying capital and food is not good. I'm just failing to understand the distinction between destroying a deceased person's capital, and destroying their money.
> I'm just failing to understand the distinction between destroying a deceased person's capital, and destroying their money.
"Capital" is the wrong word here. It doesn't include non-productive, consumable goods such as food, but it can include money as a stand-in for means of production. It doesn't make sense to contrast "capital" with "money" when what you really mean is "all goods which are not money".
In any case, the difference is utility. The value of money is (almost) entirely derived from its use in trade; it's not consumed and it doesn't directly serve as a means of production. If a factory burns down or food spoils then society is poorer for it, but if the amount of money in existence decreases then nothing of value is lost, provided it affects everyone holding currency equally. (In the case of someone dying the only one not affected equally is the deceased, who isn't around to object to the loss and thus doesn't count.) We still have all the consumable goods and means of production which we had before, and the purchasing power of the remaining currency will adjust to compensate for the change in the money supply.
If you haven't shared it with anyone, why would anyone get it?
If you didn't trust anyone with the keys to it while you were alive, why should anyone have it?