With all due respect, as someone that’s probably downvoted everything you’ve said on this thread, my reasons for doing so have nothing to do with your language preferences. Your comments are needlessly impassioned and vitriolic. I am not even remotely interested in the type of religious war discussion you are trying to foster.
I can honestly say with complete confidence that I’d feel this way regardless of what language you were talking about.
In addition to this though, as someone that writes Python / Django professionally and has done so for some time, my familiarity with the language gives me the necessarily insight to see where your experience is limited. I’ve seen a few inarguable factual inaccuracies (i.e. not based on opinion) in what you’ve said in a few comments. It seems obvious that when you engage with Python and Django you aren’t doing so all that willingly. But honestly your strength in your convictions puts me off getting into a back and forth with you to reach a shared understanding. The confidence with which you’re writing feels a bit misplaced.
Your overuse of hyperbole makes it hard to tell what you actually believe and what you’d genuinely argue for in a real-life professional context rather than behind a screen name on an Internet forum, so even if I wanted to engage in a back and forth I wouldn’t even know where to meet you.
This is a classic example of the loudest and most impassioned voices framing themselves as winning because people just don’t want to engage.
This is all to say before writing off downvoters are upset people on “the other team” which are lesser than you, consider the possibility that you’re probably throwing your weight around a bit too much and are creating an environment that’s generally unpleasant. I’ve enjoyed the tech community largely moving away from the “us vs them” mentality. Truth be told, none of this shit matters enough to warrant that sort of mentality. I feel like I’ve stepped back in time reading your comments. Not only are they unenjoyable to read, but I am not an iota more enlightened about the comparative benefits of Ruby vs Python. So I ask you…what’s actually your intention in commenting in the first place? The truthful answer to that question is why I’ll continue to downvote.
> Your comments are needlessly impassioned and vitriolic
I'm simply Italian and english is not my native language, so I use the most simple versions of it, resulting in what you call "vetriolic"
Have you ever heard some english native speaker, especially Americans, trying to speak Italian?
they all sound like Don Vito Corleone. Should I assume they work for the mob?
So, basically, you let your prejudice guide your actions.
If you prefer possiamo parlare in Italiano, la mia lingua madre, che conosco molto bene e grazie alla quale posso esprimermi in maniera estremamente più formale. In Italiano, per esempio, le avrei dato del Lei, non del tu, che ritengo molto poco professionale fra persone che non si conoscono e stanno sostenendo una conversazione in pubblico. Nella mia lingua è un segno di reciproco rispetto.
Spero Lei capisca che il mondo parla molto poco inglese e che quello che a Lei sembra "al vetriolo" certifica solamente una sua mancanza di empatia nei confronti delle altrui culture.
Cordiali saluti.
> This is all to say before writing off downvoters are upset people on “the other team”
I have no "team" I just have 26 years of experience in the field and Python deployment is way worse than deploying PHP apps in 1995. It's hyperbolic, I agree, but it's also not far from the truth. PHP was a simple FTP all the files on some host, Python projects most of the time miss or have incomplete requirements.txt, you have to reverse engineer dependencies, there are N distributions so you have something developed on Windows using Conda but the deployment server is Debian stable with pip etc. etc.
I don't think I'm saying something people never faced, but if that is the case, well, It means I am the only one and that is good news!
Add to that that, not to their fault, scientist have been sold the lie that Python "is easy" or "is the language for scientists" (I still remember in 1995 at uni when as a CS student I was working together with the Biology department on DNA sequencing and Perl was all the rage thanks to "Beginning Perl for bioinformatics" book, how much things can change in a couple of decades...)
Python is not so easy and coding something that runs in production is not the same thing of running experiments in a lab once, where "it just works" is enough.
Also, language inconsistencies and a patchwork design, led to very confusing results, like C++, without the extreme power of C++.
Like Perl, without the extremely good bits of Perl.
I do not write Python as my daily job and I do not write Ruby since 2015.
Ruby is simply a better language than Python and Python 2, as a language, was better than the first 5-6 years of Python 3, because it was really a simple language where there was only one way to do stuff.
Python 3 is simply another language, that solved very few of the issues with packaging and dependency management it inherited, broke backwards compatibility and for a decade coexisted with Python2 making everything a lot more problematic than it should have been.
Is that a language's fault? Only marginally, but I think that the way transitions are handled is one of those things that tell you a lot about how much you can trust a tool. Python failed miserably.
While, for example, PHP in the same time frame it took to migrate Python from 2 to 3 solved a lot of its problems to the point that, if it was preinstalled, I would much prefer it to Python.
Meanwhile Ruby, the real argument of this submission, arrived at version 3.2 with a new Jit that improves performance 40% in benchmarks. Not bad for a "slow language".
The only thing IMO that saved Python from oblivion is that Google invested a lot of money on it.
Briefly about the ecosystem: I've recently started using Polars in Rust and Elixir and it's a 100% replacement with better API and performance [1] than Pandas. It has also Python and Ruby bindings. Why people do not adopt it? Because inertia and status quo, of course. Which is not very "scientific" if you ask me and right now even the "Python is were all the ML/AI stuff is happening" IMO is not true anymore.
That's what I want to talk about and hear opinions, certainly I'm not interested in your opinion about me.
I'm an actual 100% mister nobody, I'm not an interesting character in the most absolute way.
I strongly believe that the "team" you're talking about is people not wanting to hear that, for some people like me, Python sucks and that we would never use it if were not forced to.
I can honestly say with complete confidence that I’d feel this way regardless of what language you were talking about.
In addition to this though, as someone that writes Python / Django professionally and has done so for some time, my familiarity with the language gives me the necessarily insight to see where your experience is limited. I’ve seen a few inarguable factual inaccuracies (i.e. not based on opinion) in what you’ve said in a few comments. It seems obvious that when you engage with Python and Django you aren’t doing so all that willingly. But honestly your strength in your convictions puts me off getting into a back and forth with you to reach a shared understanding. The confidence with which you’re writing feels a bit misplaced.
Your overuse of hyperbole makes it hard to tell what you actually believe and what you’d genuinely argue for in a real-life professional context rather than behind a screen name on an Internet forum, so even if I wanted to engage in a back and forth I wouldn’t even know where to meet you.
This is a classic example of the loudest and most impassioned voices framing themselves as winning because people just don’t want to engage.
This is all to say before writing off downvoters are upset people on “the other team” which are lesser than you, consider the possibility that you’re probably throwing your weight around a bit too much and are creating an environment that’s generally unpleasant. I’ve enjoyed the tech community largely moving away from the “us vs them” mentality. Truth be told, none of this shit matters enough to warrant that sort of mentality. I feel like I’ve stepped back in time reading your comments. Not only are they unenjoyable to read, but I am not an iota more enlightened about the comparative benefits of Ruby vs Python. So I ask you…what’s actually your intention in commenting in the first place? The truthful answer to that question is why I’ll continue to downvote.