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> especially not when there are other much better and more modern tools. (which Java is demonstrably playing catch-up with)

Which modern tools do you have in mind here?

Java does indeed playing catch up with new features. That's inevitable for a language came out 30 years ago. OTOTH many other languages are still behind Java in terms of the runtime environment and the ecosystem. You should pick what works for you, not to go with the trend.

> The best talent don't even want to consider working with Java if they can help it.

I think you seriously overestimate how talent those devs are if language is the deciding factor of what they choose to work on.



> Which modern tools do you have in mind here?

We're talking about Kotlin here (there are many contexts where neither Kotlin nor Java is the correct tool, but for pretty much any use case where Java is an option, Kotlin is going to be a better one)

> not to go with the trend

I'm so sick of this argument, it presupposes that Java is the default and anything else by definition is just a trend. Kotlin is not a trend, Kotlin is not a fad. Stop begging the question.

> I think you seriously overestimate how talent those devs are if language is the deciding factor of what they choose to work on.

Ok, and I think you seriously overestimate the willingness of people who have given Kotlin a serious try and seen first hand how much it offers over Java to go back to working for a Java-heavy shop if they can help it.


> OTOTH many other languages are still behind Java in terms of the runtime environment and the ecosystem.

Ecosystem doesn't matter except at the long tail. I've never needed a library that didn't exist for NodeJS, until I started doing LLM work.

Now 80% of LLM libraries exist for NodeJS, 100% of LLM stuff has a Python library, and Java libraries are incredibly rare.

Want an ORM solution? Java has you covered.




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