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Can you not use VLC or MPC?


You can use VLC. After your comment, I wasn't sure why that was the case. Apparently:

> Neither French law nor European conventions recognize software as patentable (see French section below). Therefore, software patents licenses do not apply on VideoLAN software.

From http://www.videolan.org/legal.html


(disclaimer: I wrote that page :) )

Well, there are 2 legal parts that apply here: - DRM - software patents.

Software patents for DVDs are almost all over (it's a 20 year old technology). And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents.

On the DRM part, libdvdcss is not DeCSS, it's either finding the right key or brute-forcing to find the right key. In order to play a DVD, you need to "open" the DRM, else you cannot have playback.

In the case of VLC+libdvdcss-bundle, it's usually fine in (sane) juridictions because it's a player, not violating the copyrights holders. On some other, it's illegal.


> And in Europe, we don't have valid software patents.

That is categorically untrue, and you should stop telling people that. In Europe, software is not patent-eligible "as such", but it is if it solves a technical problem.

The only thing that eliminates is "business method" patents, which are just a subset of what people generally refer to as "software patents".


I'm interested, could you please give an example?



The underlying motivation of the encryption on DVD's goes beyond preventing piracy. It's about making sure you cannot skip past the ads at the start of the movie. They needed a mechanism to require all DVD players to respect the flags on a DVD that say "this cannot be skipped", and did that by pushing it into the 1996 WIPO treaty that you must have anti-circumvention laws that prohibit people from breaking the encryption on copyrighted materials without the permission of the rights holder. Only licensed players are decrypting with permission. VLC is not a licensed player, so VLC often runs afoul of such laws.

Just because the patents expire doesn't make the anti-circumvention laws go away. Those laws only stop applying once the copyright on the DVD expires, in a century or so.


Well, those anti-circumvention laws, for example in Germany, only apply in some cases. For example, as soon as software is included on the CD, too, breaking the DRM becomes legal.


But see also this (on the same page) if you're using VLC in the US:

"libdvdcss

libdvdcss is a library that can find and guess keys from a DVD in order to decrypt it. This method is authorized by a French law decision CE 10e et 9e sous­sect., 16 juillet 2008, n° 301843 on interoperability.

NB: In the USA, you should check out the US Copyright Office decision that allows circumvention in some cases."


Ah interesting! I missed that.


That is actually illegal in Finland because it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection. Technically you need a licensed player. A few people have turned themselves in for watching a DVD on Linux and they received a token fine.


> That is actually illegal in Finland because it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection.

How do you not circumvent the copy protection to read a DVD?

(See my various talks about libdvdcss)


It's probably not circumvention if you're using a licensed reader/player.


I'm pretty sure it isn't (anymore) in all cases or it would run afoul EU Directive 2001/29 (see also the ECJ Nintendo case of 2014).


I'm pretty sure it's illegal to circumvent the copy protection in the US, as well.


I'm no expert in US law but this US copyright office decision suggests that it's legal in some cases: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

The case here seems more related to the MPEG patents though.


My brain went to DeCSS, which, weirdly, the DVD licensing company lost because enough people had (illegally?) published it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Copy_Control_Ass%27n,_Inc....

I think there was also the Sony jailbreaking guy who settled with Sony out of court.


How much is the fine?


It's hard to find working links for old stuff (this was in ~2007), but...

The law made "organized discussion" about breaking copy protection illegal so they also created a website with the title "organized discussion" and displayed code for breaking the protection and someone also paid 5 cents for it after which they turned themselves in :)

Apparently the lower courts acquitted them but that was reversed and the supreme court didn't take the case. So the end result is that it's illegal but they didn't receive any penalties. Apparently the European court of human rights didn't accept the case either.

http://mjr.iki.fi/eucd/ (discussed here in Finnish)

http://www.digitoday.fi/yhteiskunta/2008/05/26/dvdn-katselu-... (news article about it)


Heh, nice. Thanks!


It's not about what "can" be done, you can also install the pirated software too, the thing is, by buying legally Windows 7 or Windows 8 Media Pack or Ultimate I have really paid the DVD playback functionality to Microsoft as well as the other features I've mentioned.

Also read about the legality aspects of the Microsoft's DVD solutions up to now and of the open-source DVD players:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/if-vlc-can-ship-a-free-dvd-play...


Yes but you do not have to upgrade to Windows 10 and they made it pretty clear they removed these softwares (it warned me when they proposed the update). This is unfortunate but I don't think Microsoft has been evil here.


Where is the warning being displayed? As far as I've seen you can click through the dialogs without seeing it.


"you do not have to upgrade to Windows 10"

Everyone has to stop using that as an excuse. It doesn't even make sense & it's myopic. Obsolescence is built into Windows. If you want to continue being safe using Windows you NEED to upgrade. You can choose not to upgrade, but it's at your detriment.

It's a choice until it's not.


If it was 2020 you might have a point, since that's when they'll end-of-life Windows 7. But it is 2015, you can use Windows 7 with Media Center and your DVD codec for the next five years.

Honestly I get the strong sense we wouldn't even be having this discussion if Windows 10 was NOT free i.e. if it costs $100. Since then people would simply not feel compelled to upgrade, instead it is free for a limited period, so people feel compelled and are now complaining about being "forced" to.

The reality is you can use Windows 7 until 2020. Just go ahead and do that then.


Sure it is a choice. You absolutely need the DVD player...don't upgrade now. Maybe by the time you need it, the functionality will be restored. Regardless, it is a choice you can make. Don't be entitled.


"Don't be entitled."

entitled -- to give (a person or thing) a title, right, or claim to something

I spent my money, I can be entitled. Besides this isn't just about libdvdcss. There are many withdrawn features and anti-features included.


> I spent my money, I can be entitled.

No, you didn't. You spend $0 on Windows 10.

You spent money on Windows 7 and you can continue to use that without restriction.

You absolutely are acting entitled for something which is free.


And according to everyone else, if you paid for it as part of either of those, it's still fucking there.


I don't get it... are you complaining that you were revoked a license to a software that came bundled with windows?


In the EU, Microsoft sells the N edition [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/products/what-is...], Windows sans Media Player. Thus, if you have selected the normal version, you are actually paying for Media and DVD playing capabilities.


The pricing is exactly the same, nor was the rationale ever to provide an edition for people who don't need a DVD player. You can still download and install those components freely after installing the OS.


The rationale for it was an anti-competition lawsuit brought by the EU.

The pricing may be the same, you may even be able to download the components, but the difference exists and there is choice to select something without.

They may have been forced to do it, but you are paying for a product WITH media player, same price or not.


http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-media-center-gets-laid...

"Microsoft confirmed to ZDNet that Windows Media Center is indeed finished, and users who upgrade to Windows 10 will no longer see it."

http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-will-include-option...

"In a statement on his Twitter account, Windows Insider leader Gabriel Aul provided this tidbit of news:

"The main scenario people used WMC for was to play DVD. We'll provide another option for DVD playback in the future."

Exactly what this option will be, and if it might be free or if it will cost Windows 10 users extra, has yet to be announced."


Why wouldn't someone complain about a reduction in functionality in software they paid for? Do you somehow feel that's out of line?


It's not only that Microsoft removes the features, they also don't tell you clearly they'll remove them but they put almost "malware-like" request on your system for which you already paid to them to "just upgrade it's safe."


> they also don't tell you clearly they'll remove them

Yes they do. The upgrade assistant warns you during the upgrade process[0] and specifically has you confirm it.

[0] https://i.imgur.com/ekSbGOL.jpg




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