Yeah, in this specific case, it seems somewhat justified, but I'm really not sure how I feel about a car that logs that much.
Even though I use web apps that can log everything including mouse movement, something about such logging in the physical world still puts me off big time...
Would you feel better about an option that let you disable internal logging on the condition that your service/maintenance costs were raised substantially? The purpose seems to be to make diagnostic work easier, after all.
My Dad is a mechanic and I can tell you this would be a god-send for troubleshooting. However, as a private person, I have a lot of trouble with other people knowing my habits and who I visit when and where. Docs and Dentists take an oath not to tell for a reason. Mechanics and engineers do not. Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything.
"Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything."
I think BHSPitMonkey meant that if they didn't log in general, maintenance costs would be higher and the costumers would pay for it in one way or another.
I don't know what they specifically log, but if they don't log car location, I'm not sure what "value" from a personal privacy standpoint, they would gain in knowing you open your doors 3 times before sitting down. Other than that you're OCD I guess :S. If they track location, then that changes my entire opinion. That's a trickier subject to handle.
Well, the timing of opening/closing of doors might be able to give you a radius from work to home. But since most repair shops know this to bill you, thats mute. If it logged when, then they would know your routine, but they could guess that anyways. Yeah, it's a bit paranoid, and logging it is less harmful than real time updating and tracking. Still, some of the guys that my dad worked with would not by ANY means be considered trustworthy people.
I would feel better about an option that encrypted all internal logging, and left me in charge of the key, so that I could give read-only access to the service technician, and then revoke it after the car was good.
Put the key in the actual key (or key fob, in the case of Tesla). Service technicians could use a "valet+" key that would get them access to everything except those protected logs, or read only access to the logs. If the customer were so inclined, they could volunteer the key+key to the technicians.
The key+key would be tamper resistant so that revoking credentials after getting your car serviced would be less necessary; just make sure they give you that key back.
I also feel like they could have deduced they needed to put the tape on the fuse without the logs. If they keep repeatedly fixing what seems like a problem that shouldn't be happening it would seem to make sense to take that precaution without having access to such logs.
It is a surprise that people accept such extensive logging. I hope Tesla is keeping the information safe (does the information leave the car? Or is it only accessed by technicians working on the car?)
I remember when people would be very angry about software that "phoned home".
Assuming they don't track your physical location, what's the issue here? What element of interaction do you have with your vehicle that would give you cause for concern if it were tracked? How often and when doors are opened and closed? Average speed? Average distance travelled per trip? Power consumption? Physical interactions with mechanical and electrical components within the vehicle?
In all honesty, I can't think of a single thing other than physical location that I would require privacy for when it comes to owning and operating the type of car Tesla produces.
"Our logs show the passenger door opening at 3:00 am on April 7, 2014, and the added weight is consistent with an adult female passenger. Wasn't that when your wife was away on business?"
Well, if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud. In fact, I'd bet most execs are looking to do just that. The tech can be used on all cars and it makes sense to use it on all cars. At least, from the shareholder's side. What then? Do I not get to own a car? A 'then move to another country' argument is shallow. As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything.
> if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud
If that were true, GM and all the other manufacturers would already be doing it. The tech Tesla is using for this is not new.
The main reason other car manufacturers don't do it is probably very simple: cost. You have to spend the money for the extra sensors in each vehicle, plus whatever hardware is storing the data and/or transmitting it to Tesla, plus you have to hire and train your own technicians to handle the data and interact with customers (other car manufacturers have their dealers do that, but dealers aren't interested in the kind of data Tesla is collecting).
Another possible reason is that other car manufacturers don't have enough of a problem with lemon law suits to make it worth using this kind of tech on their cars. I'd be interested to see data on that if anyone has any.
> What then? Do I not get to own a car?
If it ever gets to the point where every single car manufacturer is doing this, then yes, that would be your only option if you absolutely refuse to deal with it. (Unless you wanted to start your own car company.)
> As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything.
But you don't have the right to force someone to sell you their product on your terms instead of theirs. Tesla is completely up front about what they are doing; buyers sign a long agreement that spells all this out, and if they don't like it, they are free not to buy.
You could try challenging the agreement in court, but I'm not sure on what grounds you would do that.
I don't think the reasoning behind the logging is really to prevent/provide evidence for lawsuits. I think it's more a case of log all the things so we can see what's relevant later and can use it to ensure the car stays working as long as possible. "The unreasonable effectiveness of data" has definitely permeated through to engineering and I'd just say they're good engineers that want good logs, with protection from litigation as a happy bones. That is my opinion though.
Could you elaborate on what is wowing you? I'm not sure what is so wowing about the tech putting some tape over the fuse. I'm curious what about that has you so interested. Your one word comment didn't really explain it.
Edit: sorry my question offended so many people. I was just curious and did not want to assume the meaning of the "wow" since others seem to be put off by how much logging the car does. I wasn't sure what the parent comment was about. sorry.
"wow", I assume, in that it makes it clearly apparent the customer was sabotaging their own car, in order to cause trouble and bring the lawsuit. Especially given how this isn't the only lemon-lawsuit by this customer and this lawyer, in just the last few months.
Wow.